Ep.27: Cultivating Critical Minds - Insights from Satanic Parents

# Satanists Nextdoor Podcast
# Episode 27: Cultivating Critical Minds - Insights from Satanic Parents


00:00:01.439 welcome dear listeners to Satanist next
00:00:03.600 door we're your host lilan LaVin and
00:00:06.080 Tommy LaVin whether you're an
00:00:07.720 openminded curious on licker or fellow
00:00:09.639 Satanist seeking camaraderie our goal is
00:00:11.799 to share our personal experiences and
00:00:13.719 delve into the intricate tapestry of
00:00:15.480 Satanism in our daily lives occasionally
00:00:17.960 inviting other guests to share their
00:00:19.320 unique perspectives leaving no pentagram
00:00:21.600 unturned we'll explore how our beliefs
00:00:23.800 shape our views on society dive into
00:00:25.720 struggles and triumphs we've encountered
00:00:27.560 and reveal the humanity that unites us
00:00:29.480 all so grab your favorite chalice and
00:00:32.119 join us on this captivating Journey
00:00:34.120 Satan's next door is ready to peel back
00:00:36.079 the curtain and offer you a glimpse into
00:00:37.800 our world one captivating episode at a
00:00:44.340 [Music]
00:00:58.920 time
00:01:01.399 hello and welcome to another episode of
00:01:03.039 Satanist next door so today uh we
00:01:06.040 thought we'd lighten the mood a little
00:01:07.439 bit um and talk about a subject that
00:01:11.439 really doesn't get a whole lot of
00:01:14.119 airtime or even documentation on it you
00:01:18.560 know you're kind of left to figure
00:01:21.200 things out on your own which is uh
00:01:23.560 satanic
00:01:24.880 parenting you know can you even do
00:01:28.240 that demonic parents you know oh no it's
00:01:31.880 funny it's funny because when I was
00:01:33.640 looking at different things people
00:01:35.640 discuss when it comes to Parenting while
00:01:37.360 I was prepping for this conversation a
00:01:40.280 lot of resources came up that were
00:01:42.000 religious based about being like a
00:01:44.719 parenting like Satan and all the awful
00:01:46.439 things and I I was really taken back by
00:01:48.920 that yeah sharing knowledge with your
00:01:51.240 children is a horrible thing well and
00:01:54.079 well from a Christian perspective a lot
00:01:55.600 of them look at Satan in a very
00:01:57.039 different light and and feel that all Al
00:01:59.920 though it's not really supported even in
00:02:01.119 their own scriptures Satan is all these
00:02:03.280 very negative things and and yet they
00:02:05.479 don't have the body count that certain
00:02:07.399 other in that book has but but that's
00:02:10.000 beside the point yeah so you know we
00:02:12.239 thought we'd uh we kind of talk about it
00:02:15.360 um you know a lot from our life
00:02:17.280 experience because we are parents we
00:02:21.400 have four daughters you know um our
00:02:24.360 daughters are older most of them um you
00:02:27.599 know one of them still a teenager and
00:02:29.959 and um you know when we were young
00:02:33.959 satanists and became parents there was
00:02:36.440 no
00:02:37.239 TSD um you know there was cosos which we
00:02:41.080 were a part of at the time and you know
00:02:43.040 we were pretty active members um we had
00:02:47.120 applied for and gotten approved to be
00:02:49.200 Grotto leaders for that program that
00:02:51.400 lasted ever so small little tiny sliver
00:02:53.840 of time yeah and uh but you know there
00:02:57.360 wasn't there wasn't a whole lot out
00:02:59.159 there and especially at that time you
00:03:01.599 know parents um you know were almost
00:03:04.680 looked at as like oh my God you got kids
00:03:06.840 stay away you know uh it's a contagious
00:03:09.480 you know things like that so you know it
00:03:11.480 was it was a lot of confusion
00:03:15.040 uncertainty and as the internet's grown
00:03:19.080 as tst's gone out there I would say one
00:03:21.560 thing that I think TST has done really
00:03:23.720 well is uh for the entire satanic
00:03:27.200 Community you know whether you're TSTC
00:03:30.159 whatever is I think it's made Satanism
00:03:33.640 safer for for people in the sense that
00:03:37.000 before TS was out there you know and and
00:03:40.200 you know doing News interviews and
00:03:42.120 things like that people had a very
00:03:44.519 different and when I say people I mean
00:03:46.760 the general population not the wacko
00:03:49.439 radicals which are always going to think
00:03:52.519 satanists are doing certain things but I
00:03:54.920 think the general public had a different
00:03:57.280 view of what a Satanist is than they do
00:04:00.360 now M um so you know we were kind of
00:04:04.319 like well [ __ ] what do we do um you know
00:04:07.760 and this question even still came up
00:04:09.560 when we were doing our one of our
00:04:11.560 Thursday meetings with um you know
00:04:13.959 people that are just interested in
00:04:15.760 Satanism our open Office meetings MH and
00:04:19.880 you know we had people bringing up the
00:04:21.639 question well how do you treat holidays
00:04:24.120 what do you do with your kids so
00:04:26.400 obviously it's you know even with as
00:04:29.720 many Satanist as there are out there
00:04:32.039 publicly now it still is a seems to be
00:04:36.240 you know a question especially for
00:04:38.000 people new coming into Satanism you know
00:04:40.120 how how do I do this are my kids going
00:04:41.720 to be
00:04:43.120 ostracized um you know and I think we we
00:04:46.280 touched on this a little bit before and
00:04:49.000 I had mentioned how we kind of took a
00:04:51.120 step back from Satanism and I got some
00:04:53.240 feedback and I think people
00:04:54.919 misunderstood what I said you know like
00:04:57.320 oh you don't have to stop being a
00:04:58.759 Satanist to to be a parent and no you
00:05:01.840 you don't but what what I meant by
00:05:05.000 stepping back was we became less active
00:05:08.360 we became less visible you know for the
00:05:11.880 safety of our children at the time
00:05:14.320 because there was a lot of unknown and
00:05:16.560 well and and you got to think we came
00:05:18.639 off the tail end of the satanic Panic so
00:05:20.919 that was all very Vivid in our minds
00:05:23.319 there was a lot of people that made
00:05:24.759 false claims against individuals that
00:05:26.400 had nothing to do with Satanism and we
00:05:28.360 watched those individuals put in jail
00:05:30.479 many of whom are only just getting out
00:05:32.680 now so if you think about that in
00:05:34.800 context again these are families that
00:05:36.720 were ripped apart people that were
00:05:37.919 jailed and they had nothing to do with
00:05:40.039 Satanism and here we are actually
00:05:42.080 Satanist and what does that look like
00:05:44.440 and no no desire to [ __ ] on anyone's you
00:05:47.919 know the way they present themselves but
00:05:49.319 Anton Le who did a lot of amazing things
00:05:51.960 publicly and really pushed things
00:05:53.680 forward as far as modern Satanism goes
00:05:55.919 did not exactly have what I would call a
00:05:58.199 parental um you know facade there was
00:06:00.560 nothing about him that really came
00:06:02.080 across as parental unfortunately even in
00:06:05.000 real life there was a lot of different
00:06:07.639 opinions about them and and the way that
00:06:10.080 they approach things and parenting is
00:06:12.000 definitely one of the things people had
00:06:13.560 plenty of opinions on I didn't know him
00:06:15.479 as a person I don't individually know
00:06:17.440 any of his children so I'm not going to
00:06:19.199 speak about what his actual parenting
00:06:21.120 was like but there is a definitely an
00:06:24.080 opinion that people held about him and
00:06:26.199 about Satanism in general at that point
00:06:28.720 yeah and and you know and and then you
00:06:32.520 you want to walk a fine line because you
00:06:34.800 don't want to indoctrinate your children
00:06:38.440 um but that doesn't also mean that you
00:06:40.440 lie to your children you know about who
00:06:43.120 you are and so I've always or I should
00:06:45.560 rephrase that we have always approached
00:06:48.400 things from an age appropriate sort of
00:06:52.120 information you know a 2-year-old
00:06:54.240 doesn't need to know you're Satanist
00:06:56.479 they don't give a [ __ ] they're running
00:06:58.160 around still pooping in their diapers
00:07:00.039 and you know getting into trouble don't
00:07:02.120 go in that cabinet stop climbing on the
00:07:04.120 VCR you know yeah whatever um but as
00:07:08.479 they get older it you know it kind of
00:07:11.160 does become a topic you know and that
00:07:13.680 again that sort of depends on if you're
00:07:16.000 public or if you've decided to go more
00:07:18.720 underground and and hide who you are
00:07:20.879 from your family and and I don't even
00:07:22.720 want to use the word hide if you just
00:07:24.479 choose not to associate that stuff with
00:07:26.560 your public life in any way that's your
00:07:28.560 choice yep you get to be as public or as
00:07:30.879 private with something like your beliefs
00:07:33.080 as as you choose to be and I think we've
00:07:35.039 often talked about that even when it
00:07:36.479 comes to Satanism I'm a non-theistic
00:07:38.759 Satanist but I do understand that there
00:07:40.400 are theistic satanists that exist and
00:07:42.720 again as long as you're following my
00:07:44.280 basic don't do this like if you respect
00:07:46.840 Bly autonomy and you're not harming or
00:07:49.759 actively causing harm to any individuals
00:07:52.440 or animals or an animal to me is also an
00:07:55.039 individual so but yeah I get that lots
00:07:57.000 of people don't have that but if you're
00:07:58.080 not harming things in the name of your
00:07:59.960 beliefs I I don't really care how you
00:08:02.520 choose to interpret your belief yeah
00:08:04.919 yeah so you know a lot of and and I
00:08:08.720 thought it was appropriate to do this
00:08:11.080 this episode now because of the time of
00:08:14.360 year that it is you know we are going
00:08:16.440 into the quote unquote Christmas season
00:08:20.199 you know and um you know which again
00:08:23.680 that that comes up with the decision do
00:08:25.680 you as parents uh celebrate Christmas
00:08:28.879 like
00:08:29.919 most of the people in the United States
00:08:31.879 or do you not and then does your feel
00:08:35.120 child feel ostracized because you know
00:08:37.799 when they go to school and stuff like
00:08:39.200 that what you don't celebrate Christmas
00:08:40.919 well who are you blah blah blah and
00:08:42.399 you're also interacting with other
00:08:43.679 family members at this time of year
00:08:45.440 right so if you are in the process of
00:08:47.560 deconstruction and you happen to be a
00:08:49.360 parent this is a very difficult time
00:08:51.680 because sometimes you you know for the
00:08:53.880 for the better of your family choose to
00:08:55.880 involve yourself as long as they not
00:08:57.200 toxic with other family members who your
00:09:00.120 kids love and and enjoy being around
00:09:02.360 which is great again is if it's not a
00:09:04.880 toxic environment um for them to to know
00:09:07.680 those people and to have relationships
00:09:09.160 but sometimes you're dealing with uh
00:09:11.240 indoctrination or things that you were
00:09:12.959 exposed to and it's hard to to work on
00:09:15.800 those things especially at this time of
00:09:17.360 year yeah and so I think back I mean
00:09:20.720 when it came to the holidays um you know
00:09:24.240 specifically we'll just for this episode
00:09:26.800 we'll call it Christmas instead of soul
00:09:28.720 and Victor or or winter solce or whatnot
00:09:32.200 um cuz I was raised very atheist yeah
00:09:35.680 very very very very very atheist to the
00:09:38.720 point that when we moved to New York and
00:09:40.959 I was in elementary school I I bought a
00:09:43.600 present for my aunt um and it was this
00:09:46.200 really pretty star that somebody was
00:09:48.160 selling and I bought it because it was a
00:09:49.920 really pretty star turns out it was star
00:09:52.079 Davis I had no idea what the star David
00:09:54.680 was I had no idea you know I just I had
00:09:58.519 no relig religious exposure whatsoever
00:10:01.959 you know so they had a good laugh over
00:10:03.720 it and I was like what the hell it's a
00:10:05.480 star I didn't think anything of it so we
00:10:08.680 celebrated Christmas but we celebrated
00:10:11.760 Christmas in the sense that there was
00:10:13.880 this this you know overweight dude on a
00:10:17.120 on a sleigh with with with reindeers
00:10:20.360 that did Magic and you know he got
00:10:23.399 around the world in a night and you got
00:10:25.440 presents and to a child that's you know
00:10:28.720 wow that's cool you know again age
00:10:32.360 appropriate things here you know at some
00:10:35.040 point they they grow out of that
00:10:37.320 especially if they use critical thinking
00:10:39.639 um you know um and our kids we we
00:10:43.160 definitely were always much more open
00:10:44.560 with them but there was that period of
00:10:46.120 time where that that um they knew it
00:10:48.120 wasn't a real thing but it was fun to go
00:10:50.360 through the motions you know NORAD Santa
00:10:52.880 and staying up to see that and baking
00:10:55.200 cookies and all the weird traditional
00:10:57.040 oil stuff that we all associate now with
00:10:58.800 the very commercial holiday that we all
00:11:01.040 celebrate but you know I think the big
00:11:03.079 thing for people is they don't see
00:11:04.720 Satanist as moral people principles or
00:11:08.480 values how can you have kids when you're
00:11:10.040 not teaching them anything they run
00:11:11.279 around like heathens and do whatever
00:11:12.760 they want and you know do you even do
00:11:15.079 you even like have any kind of things
00:11:16.519 you teach them and the answer is yes and
00:11:18.959 we do have morals and values and
00:11:20.720 principles um when you look about look
00:11:23.200 at it if you just go let's just say like
00:11:25.560 cosos as an example they have principles
00:11:28.720 and foundational beliefs they actually
00:11:30.839 have you know 11 when you look at their
00:11:33.680 specific uh foundational values thees
00:11:36.560 you the rules of the earth and they they
00:11:38.600 talk about the different things you know
00:11:40.519 Don't Give opinions or advice unless
00:11:42.000 you're asked don't tell your troubles to
00:11:43.560 others unless they're sure they want to
00:11:44.680 hear them like just basic don't harm
00:11:46.560 children considerate stuff don't kill
00:11:48.320 animals unless you're going to eat it
00:11:49.800 you know right right respect people's
00:11:51.519 homes respect people's space it it goes
00:11:53.600 through it so if you ever want to look
00:11:55.079 those are there and then if you go to
00:11:56.880 the satanic temple then we have our are
00:11:59.120 seven fundamental tenants um that we use
00:12:02.240 that really go over compassion empathy
00:12:04.800 toward All Creatures not just you know
00:12:06.600 other humans towards everything
00:12:08.160 respecting Freedom striving for justice
00:12:10.639 we we have these things that we
00:12:13.199 definitely feel our foundational now I'm
00:12:15.160 not going to pull aside a kid and say
00:12:16.639 well these are our foundational tenants
00:12:18.120 and this is how you're going to live you
00:12:20.000 know based on my beliefs we don't do
00:12:22.079 that no because again indoctrination
00:12:24.480 yeah and and there is a difference
00:12:26.079 between indoctrination and and just
00:12:28.920 spreading knowledge you know helping a a
00:12:31.480 child to understand you know why should
00:12:34.360 I not do this or you know why do you
00:12:37.880 wear an upside down star on your NE
00:12:40.560 again you know age appropriate
00:12:43.279 conversations that you can have when
00:12:45.360 they're younger especially letting kids
00:12:46.760 lead the conversation if they have a
00:12:48.959 question stick very closely to the the
00:12:51.399 answer specific to the question and
00:12:53.320 don't try to elaborate on it if they
00:12:55.240 have a followup they're going to let you
00:12:56.839 know and that shifts as they get older
00:12:58.880 and the questions become more detailed
00:13:01.160 and the responses then also become more
00:13:03.000 detailed so keeping things age
00:13:04.560 appropriate but keeping in mind that
00:13:06.240 Satanism as a belief promotes the idea
00:13:08.160 of IND individuality and encourages
00:13:10.680 examination of multiple perspectives so
00:13:13.480 we keep in our mind that being open to
00:13:16.480 other ways of thinking and being open to
00:13:18.199 different perspectives and challenging
00:13:19.800 our own perspectives as we encounter New
00:13:22.440 Perspectives to see whether or not it
00:13:24.000 checks out is very important when you're
00:13:26.720 coming from a satanic Foundation so
00:13:29.120 teaching your kids critical thinking one
00:13:31.160 of the top things that we do challenge
00:13:33.959 thoughts challenge us when we say things
00:13:36.160 not in like a douchy way but
00:13:38.160 respectfully like if I say you know I
00:13:39.959 really need you to do this this this and
00:13:41.680 this and they go you know I had a long
00:13:43.760 day I'm I'm really kind of exhausted can
00:13:46.440 we like break this up a bit why do you
00:13:48.360 need it done right now I'm not going to
00:13:49.639 be mad at them for that you know if they
00:13:51.480 say well I don't have to do that crap
00:13:52.880 it's not my business what great no you
00:13:54.720 don't you're right you don't have to do
00:13:56.120 that crap and I don't have to provide
00:13:58.440 you these extra special like things that
00:14:00.680 you want to do you know that thing you
00:14:02.040 wanted to do on the weekend the chores
00:14:03.959 that you help with gets gets you that
00:14:05.839 privilege that let you go out and do
00:14:07.320 those things I don't want to work but I
00:14:09.320 do it too so we all have to do things we
00:14:11.600 don't always like to do and that's just
00:14:13.240 part of being responsible person and
00:14:15.160 then you have a conversation see it's an
00:14:16.880 open dialogue it's not like because I
00:14:18.399 told you to yeah and the other part of
00:14:22.360 of um parenting when it comes to
00:14:25.560 Satanism um is is you know we don't have
00:14:28.399 this spare the rod spoil the child
00:14:30.399 [ __ ] you know I mean bodily autonomy
00:14:33.480 goes through to children as well yeah
00:14:37.040 you know from the moment they're born
00:14:39.360 they they are an individual human being
00:14:41.120 and you have to consider their potential
00:14:43.720 wants and needs they can't really
00:14:45.000 Express them but you know even when it
00:14:47.519 came to they struggle with just learning
00:14:50.440 how to express that they have wants or
00:14:51.880 needs you know just hearing that and
00:14:53.959 trying to figure it out and working to
00:14:56.040 to I'm not going to crap on people that
00:14:58.399 that believe in letting kids cry that's
00:15:00.240 your parenting style you're allowed to
00:15:02.279 have that parenting style but for me it
00:15:04.680 was really important for me when I would
00:15:06.199 hear them to give them a few minutes and
00:15:08.399 then go check and then take care of like
00:15:10.880 try to figure out their needs and that
00:15:12.399 was important and I've always done that
00:15:13.720 from the moment they started to to
00:15:15.519 express themselves all the way up um
00:15:17.360 that doesn't mean I don't get frustrated
00:15:18.959 or feel tired myself and like H you know
00:15:21.800 what do you why do you always have to
00:15:23.160 ask you know with this thing just can
00:15:24.600 you help me out and do what I asked you
00:15:26.399 to do and then they'll be like but Mom
00:15:28.440 yeah and and I think you know a lot of
00:15:31.920 this comes into play a lot of parenting
00:15:34.759 you know what what decisions you make
00:15:36.680 and things like that really comes into
00:15:38.120 play after they've grown past the baby
00:15:41.800 years the toddler years stuff like that
00:15:43.720 I mean because in those years you're
00:15:45.199 basically doing the same thing you're
00:15:46.440 changing diapers you're feeding them
00:15:48.199 you're blah blah blah it's more as they
00:15:50.399 start to enter into school interact with
00:15:54.240 other children start to to grow up and
00:15:58.040 then you know the either questions start
00:16:02.279 start coming as to and again this really
00:16:05.079 depends on if you're public or if you
00:16:08.759 just kind of keep things on on the down
00:16:11.639 low or whatnot do you even expose your
00:16:15.160 children to it you know do do your
00:16:17.120 children as they start to become
00:16:18.759 teenagers do your children know you're a
00:16:20.800 Satanist or or do they just know that
00:16:24.079 Mom and Dad don't believe in anything
00:16:26.360 you know and so there's a lot of school
00:16:28.720 of thought on that and some people are
00:16:31.480 really really strict where they're like
00:16:33.160 well if you tell them you're Satanist
00:16:34.720 you're indoctrinating them and no that's
00:16:36.959 that's not true indoctrination is you
00:16:38.800 are going to church on Sunday or else
00:16:41.279 you are grounded and blah blah blah it
00:16:43.800 is not educating educating is different
00:16:46.920 than
00:16:47.720 indoctrination and that tends to
00:16:50.399 sometimes be a point of conflict with
00:16:52.440 people and I notice that it becomes a
00:16:54.279 point of conflict with people who do not
00:16:56.399 have children versus people who have
00:16:59.480 children so I would say if you do not
00:17:02.319 have children it's really hard for you
00:17:05.520 to tell people who have children because
00:17:08.119 you have no experience you don't
00:17:10.599 understand what that's like you you've
00:17:12.679 never been there so but back to like the
00:17:15.199 point critical thinking encourages you
00:17:17.640 to challenge things that you don't agree
00:17:19.839 with and one of the biggest things I
00:17:21.400 think we've worked hard to do is
00:17:23.280 encourage our kids to challenge even us
00:17:25.839 to tell them that just because someone's
00:17:27.240 older than you it doesn't mean that
00:17:29.039 they're inh inherently smarter or more
00:17:32.000 capable or right or right and it's okay
00:17:35.039 to let people earn your respect I hated
00:17:38.000 forever you know myself as a kid when
00:17:40.520 people would just act like you earn like
00:17:42.520 you owe respect to whatever adult
00:17:44.919 happens to be in in the room and I get
00:17:47.480 it that there's some lived experience
00:17:50.440 that someone older than you has but for
00:17:52.360 me respect is something one earns mhm
00:17:56.000 and just because you're older does not
00:17:57.640 mean you're worthy of respect yeah yeah
00:18:00.400 because there's older people that do bad
00:18:02.880 things horrible to children and because
00:18:06.760 kids are taught you just do what
00:18:08.480 grown-ups say you know it puts them in a
00:18:12.120 bad situation with a person like that
00:18:14.159 and you should according to us as as we
00:18:17.799 were parents we always taught our kids
00:18:20.159 to challenge if something doesn't sound
00:18:22.840 right then challenge it yeah or if
00:18:25.440 something feels wrong or if somebody
00:18:27.559 says something to you don't be afraid to
00:18:29.640 to tell us because you know no matter
00:18:31.440 what a person might tell you can happen
00:18:33.120 if you share that information it's
00:18:35.159 better to do that and know that we're
00:18:36.679 going to be here to support you no
00:18:38.000 matter what and you develop that really
00:18:39.799 early so that's another great thing
00:18:41.480 satanic parenting for me bodily autonomy
00:18:44.600 means being able to set healthy
00:18:45.960 boundaries and that even goes all the
00:18:47.559 way down to whether or not a relative
00:18:49.200 can hug you and if you feel
00:18:51.039 uncomfortable you can give me a look or
00:18:53.120 a signal if you don't feel comfortable
00:18:54.480 speaking out a lot of kids don't um and
00:18:56.400 then I step in and go oh you know what
00:18:57.799 we really just just have to get going
00:18:59.080 and then like scoop them up and like
00:19:00.480 move where they get to avoid you know
00:19:02.600 Aunt Linda's Pinchy cheek hug or
00:19:04.919 whatever weird Smoochy thing somebody
00:19:06.640 does that they just don't like um
00:19:08.360 because your body is yours yeah and you
00:19:11.080 get to decide if you want people even a
00:19:13.080 hug um you know and teaching them that
00:19:15.039 they have the right to have boundaries
00:19:16.720 and that people aren't allowed to
00:19:18.280 violate those boundaries yeah even if
00:19:19.919 they're an adult doesn't give them a
00:19:21.640 right to violate a child's boundaries
00:19:24.280 and and that is you know I know that's
00:19:26.559 very different from what your
00:19:29.000 traditional Christian or or whatnot will
00:19:32.159 teach because you know they're going to
00:19:33.520 teach the adult is you know they have
00:19:36.600 all to say and you do what the adult
00:19:38.559 says and blah blah and if you don't like
00:19:40.480 it well maybe that's you that you need
00:19:43.080 to work on your own issues and you know
00:19:45.640 it might not be an issue that I don't
00:19:47.320 really want and Aunt Linda to come over
00:19:50.440 and and give me a big bear hug pinch my
00:19:53.400 cheeks and do all the stupid [ __ ] that
00:19:56.240 they do you know I mean that's just
00:19:58.480 sometimes if you don't want somebody
00:19:59.880 touching you that's that's okay you know
00:20:02.960 and that's just you know you're teaching
00:20:04.280 them from a young age foundationally
00:20:06.360 that they have the right to have
00:20:07.480 boundaries and I don't think Society
00:20:09.320 teaches that enough that kids have a
00:20:11.440 right to say no from very early on
00:20:13.960 people discourage kids from speaking
00:20:16.440 back or saying no and I I've always had
00:20:18.600 a problem with that part of it probably
00:20:20.320 because I did not have the best
00:20:21.520 upbringing and I went through a lot of
00:20:23.360 different you know group homes and stuff
00:20:25.200 like that where you know you don't have
00:20:27.280 a voice and you don't have a say and you
00:20:28.919 just have to do what everyone tells you
00:20:30.880 and that's very it's very difficult to
00:20:33.520 live under that kind of weight where you
00:20:36.039 you have wants and needs that are normal
00:20:38.039 and valuable but nobody cares about them
00:20:40.400 if it doesn't fit what it is that
00:20:41.919 they're trying to accomplish so for for
00:20:43.919 me and teaching my kids it was so
00:20:45.960 important that you know when we were
00:20:48.000 raising them that we both gave them the
00:20:49.679 opportunity to speak up whether or not
00:20:51.480 we agreed with it you know sometimes
00:20:53.320 they'd say like you know I can throw a
00:20:55.120 shoe at you if I'm mad you your little
00:20:56.840 kids are going to do things like that
00:20:58.280 and then it's about how do you respond
00:20:59.960 to that yeah no you can because you know
00:21:03.600 one that's disrespectful to the other
00:21:06.320 person and to you're you're looking to
00:21:08.120 hurt the other person and so that's not
00:21:10.120 okay and that's where you have actual
00:21:12.320 conversations with the one thing that I
00:21:14.880 can remember is when our when when our
00:21:17.840 children were younger and I would say
00:21:21.400 even as young as as six I remember a
00:21:24.679 very specific um situation because our
00:21:29.159 we we talk to our children like humans
00:21:32.159 you know we didn't what we we didn't
00:21:34.760 like make stupid this is your woo woo
00:21:37.559 and you know or you know all sorts of
00:21:40.080 things that parents do with kids to try
00:21:42.640 but we talk to our children like they
00:21:44.559 were people and we had a friend who was
00:21:48.200 a a smoker at the time and I remember
00:21:50.559 our oldest daughter was in the room
00:21:52.960 talking to him and she started having a
00:21:55.919 conversation well why do you smoke and
00:21:58.039 and it wasn't uh like in a mean way or
00:22:01.039 you know like trying to shame him she
00:22:02.559 was trying to understand why do you
00:22:03.919 smoke and he was like well I smoke
00:22:05.840 because this and and they went back and
00:22:08.000 forth and like 15 minutes into this
00:22:10.320 conversation he was like wait a minute
00:22:11.679 you're like six
00:22:13.799 mhm but he was having a grownup type
00:22:17.760 conversation and it just like blew their
00:22:20.440 mind that well wow this six-year-old is
00:22:23.840 talking to me in the same level that an
00:22:26.520 adult normally would it funny because it
00:22:28.799 was kind of like a early addiction
00:22:31.120 intervention conversation and like she's
00:22:33.559 really going in this like well you know
00:22:35.080 there's better ways to deal with stress
00:22:36.640 and frustration and I'm like uh oh here
00:22:39.440 we go but she would have these really
00:22:41.480 great points and and she's still really
00:22:43.440 a very communicative person to this day
00:22:46.120 and if you sit and talk with her you
00:22:47.760 will
00:22:48.600 definitely understand their and learn
00:22:51.919 yeah absolutely and uh that's the cool
00:22:54.400 part about being a parent for me
00:22:56.679 especially as a Satanist because I
00:22:58.559 encourage those you know wild thoughts
00:23:01.279 and and push them to to explore what
00:23:03.520 they're curious about and support it and
00:23:05.919 the other thing we often get asked well
00:23:07.600 how do you deal with other
00:23:09.200 religions just about to go there that's
00:23:11.360 a fantastic question well how do we deal
00:23:13.360 with it is we if we don't have enough
00:23:15.159 knowledge on it ourselves the specific
00:23:17.039 question that they want to have an
00:23:18.520 answer to we try to find reputable
00:23:20.720 people that are already part of that
00:23:22.200 religion to talk to yeah that we
00:23:24.679 actually go and talk to people that are
00:23:26.279 of different beliefs because as
00:23:28.039 Interfaith community members we
00:23:30.120 definitely want to be involved with
00:23:31.440 other faiths and other individuals and
00:23:33.440 so we brought our children to mosques we
00:23:35.600 brought our children to um Buddhist
00:23:37.720 temples I don't know if we found a
00:23:40.080 synagogue I don't know if at the time
00:23:41.799 there was one in our area but that one
00:23:44.320 definitely we would be you know as many
00:23:46.840 things as we could bring them to we
00:23:48.720 brought them to especially if they had
00:23:50.919 curiosity and this is kind of getting
00:23:52.720 into the young teenage sort of years
00:23:54.880 when children are starting to have these
00:23:57.279 sort of thoughts why am I here what's
00:23:59.880 the Jeffrey goes to this thing with
00:24:01.720 their parents and what is that about or
00:24:03.880 you know so and so said they have to
00:24:05.840 pray at lunch and why do you do that and
00:24:07.919 actually we had that conversation much
00:24:09.360 younger because we we actually had our
00:24:11.720 first kids here in Texas and um some of
00:24:14.480 their playgroup friends I remember this
00:24:16.360 distinctly before they were even in
00:24:17.600 school the one little girl had to pray
00:24:19.559 before they could have a snack when we
00:24:21.360 go to the park we do play dates and the
00:24:23.520 mom constantly like you have to pray
00:24:25.080 before you can have a snack and my
00:24:26.760 daughter says why do they do that that's
00:24:28.760 so weird like do you have to ask
00:24:30.760 permission to eat the snack from from
00:24:33.240 God I was like well no it's a whole
00:24:34.960 different thing and we had a whole
00:24:36.159 conversation about prayer and and why
00:24:38.480 they asked you know to give thanks and
00:24:40.440 the different things that are involved
00:24:41.799 in that um and I said you know if you
00:24:43.600 have questions you should ask their mom
00:24:45.480 like why do you guys pray before you eat
00:24:47.679 and so encouraging them to understand
00:24:49.720 what is your perspective why why do you
00:24:51.559 do this so we would have those
00:24:53.200 conversations pretty early on and again
00:24:55.640 sticking to the question and not trying
00:24:57.480 to to go past it letting them come to
00:24:59.720 you with the followup yeah I mean so as
00:25:04.360 as Satanist most of us understand what
00:25:07.559 it's like to be
00:25:09.080 ostracized and even ostracized from your
00:25:12.360 own family and the one thing I one of
00:25:15.360 the things that I never wanted my
00:25:16.919 children to feel was any sort of
00:25:19.520 ostracization for any choices that they
00:25:22.279 made so you know they knew that if they
00:25:26.039 wanted to explore a certain religion we
00:25:29.640 would fully support them it wasn't be
00:25:32.039 you know even though we were Satanist um
00:25:34.840 if they wanted to go to a Christian
00:25:36.480 church and go to youth group they they
00:25:38.559 could do that and we would answer
00:25:40.039 questions you know they would come back
00:25:41.720 and answer questions and you know
00:25:44.320 sometimes we had to have conversations
00:25:46.679 with other family members because they
00:25:48.880 would make comments that were definitely
00:25:51.760 on the indoctrination or the you know
00:25:53.760 trying to scare children into it um you
00:25:56.840 know we had their grandparents tell them
00:25:59.799 that you know and mom and dad die you
00:26:02.159 will never see them again because they
00:26:03.880 don't believe in in God and Jesus and I
00:26:06.480 had to have a pretty Stern phone call
00:26:08.799 with my parents on that one which is
00:26:12.000 again odd because as I said I was raised
00:26:14.000 atheists they just kind of went um as
00:26:17.120 they got older um you know and and I had
00:26:20.799 to put boundaries in there for you know
00:26:23.279 that you can't say that sort of [ __ ] to
00:26:26.399 my my children you can answer their
00:26:29.559 question as long as you're doing it in a
00:26:32.520 way that isn't I mean you got to think
00:26:35.399 to a child if you say you're never going
00:26:37.840 to see your parents again that is scary
00:26:41.279 Terri you know that's terrifying to a a
00:26:43.640 child um so or it was like if you can't
00:26:47.399 or feel like you aren't able to do that
00:26:50.440 without dredging in your indoctrination
00:26:53.159 then tell them to ask their parents and
00:26:55.159 we'll answer the question for them for
00:26:58.000 you um you know and so it is really
00:27:01.399 important as a Satanist I feel it's very
00:27:04.360 important that your children know that
00:27:07.640 they have support whether they're
00:27:09.919 straight whether they're um you know
00:27:12.200 whether they're on the
00:27:13.360 lgbtqia Spectrum whether they're
00:27:15.799 exploring other religions you know
00:27:18.240 anything like that they should have the
00:27:20.440 support of their parents and not be
00:27:22.320 ostracized yeah I I've always personally
00:27:25.080 had an issue with the notion that as a
00:27:28.799 parent you have the right to put all of
00:27:31.039 these you know boundaries in I really
00:27:33.720 think when you love your child you you
00:27:36.559 accept them however they are you don't
00:27:38.320 have all these weird expectations and I
00:27:40.200 guess I never I've never personally been
00:27:42.240 able to understand the the boundary love
00:27:44.840 thing that a lot of parents have you
00:27:46.840 know if my child is gay straight you
00:27:49.559 know
00:27:50.559 interracial whatever the hell it is that
00:27:52.399 they choose to do with their life you
00:27:54.279 want to have an inter relationship cool
00:27:56.559 is your partner a good person person do
00:27:58.320 do you do they love you do they respect
00:27:59.919 you that's all I care about I don't care
00:28:01.679 where they come from I don't care how
00:28:03.480 they look I don't care what their gender
00:28:05.039 is I don't care about any of that are
00:28:06.960 you happy do they treat you good do you
00:28:08.880 treat them good are you guys Happy
00:28:10.440 Together The End you know are they
00:28:12.360 respecting you and that goes for
00:28:14.000 everything or you're in a belief system
00:28:15.640 that respects you that supports you that
00:28:17.720 encourages you that you feel you can
00:28:19.240 grow in and so those are the kind of
00:28:21.240 things that matter to me same when they
00:28:23.200 just you know decide what career they
00:28:24.600 want to go into is this satisfying to
00:28:26.919 you do you feel like it's something that
00:28:28.399 you can grow with do you you know have
00:28:30.679 other aspirations how can I support you
00:28:32.919 that's what to me parenting is yeah I
00:28:36.159 remember we had one of our our uh kids
00:28:39.640 that when she was a teenager she started
00:28:42.039 going to um to youth group on a on a
00:28:45.279 pretty regular basis you know and we
00:28:47.760 supported her and all that and but I
00:28:50.200 asked her once I was like you know out
00:28:51.919 of curiosity you know what what are you
00:28:55.440 getting out of this why are you going
00:28:57.640 and she was like oh well they give out
00:28:59.919 candy and I don't care about their
00:29:02.200 [ __ ] beliefs I don't believe them I
00:29:03.919 just you know they give out candy and
00:29:05.559 food so I'm going to take their candy
00:29:07.600 and food because if they're going to
00:29:09.480 give out free candy and food for that
00:29:12.080 then hey I'm going to do that and I get
00:29:14.399 to hang out with some of my friends and
00:29:16.320 you know play some games but you know
00:29:18.640 and I was like okay but you do
00:29:20.399 understand that if that interest you
00:29:23.679 that's okay you know you you we're not
00:29:25.919 going to be mad or upset or anything
00:29:27.960 like that and she was like oh no no no I
00:29:29.880 I totally get that I'm I'm really there
00:29:31.679 for the the candy like that so I was
00:29:36.039 like okay if you're happy with it do it
00:29:39.039 but no it's it's funny because that is
00:29:41.159 definitely we would never have had a
00:29:42.919 problem with it we were really curious
00:29:44.480 cuz they just you never heard about it
00:29:46.640 or really saw anything about it and so I
00:29:48.360 was like so what do you guys do what
00:29:50.240 what is it and then she went through the
00:29:51.600 whole thing I was like oh okay yeah I
00:29:54.360 get it normally when somebody is is
00:29:57.000 starting starting to be indoctrinated
00:29:58.640 you can kind of tell because they start
00:30:00.720 to talk about it all you know and you
00:30:04.120 know they bring it up all the time they
00:30:06.240 try and convert other people and stuff
00:30:08.000 like that and none of that was happening
00:30:09.840 so it was just really a a question of
00:30:12.600 curiosity as far as you know you know
00:30:15.320 out of curiosity why are you going well
00:30:17.519 okay candy Pizza that all make sense to
00:30:19.480 me cool well go go as much as you want
00:30:21.960 and if you want to stop going then stop
00:30:25.399 you know that's up to you just let us
00:30:27.039 know what support you need from us and
00:30:28.720 we're there for you yeah and and we'll
00:30:30.799 be the first ones to say you know we did
00:30:32.480 not do everything perfect we definitely
00:30:34.519 had areas where we probably definitely
00:30:36.480 could have improved early on but we were
00:30:38.240 young when we we started into parenting
00:30:40.760 and we learned a lot along the way and
00:30:42.960 then as we look forward to being
00:30:45.039 grandparents which is something that
00:30:46.640 actually will be happening oddly enough
00:30:48.480 in our life it's now how do we um how do
00:30:51.320 we then take what we've learned and use
00:30:53.399 that and help with our kids with
00:30:55.039 parenting or use that to help en ra
00:30:57.240 raising you know our grandchild so I'm
00:30:59.279 very excited about that chapter but you
00:31:01.679 know I think it comes back to the whole
00:31:03.279 thing on indoctrination and how you
00:31:04.919 avoid it and um just being the best
00:31:07.159 support and being the most loving person
00:31:10.120 and you know guiding and and providing a
00:31:13.080 sounding board when things maybe aren't
00:31:15.360 healthy or good or or are concerning
00:31:17.840 knowing how to tactfully have that
00:31:19.760 conversation because I'll tell you what
00:31:21.600 what I learned as a parent is the minute
00:31:23.440 you tell them like don't do the thing
00:31:25.960 they're going to do the thing yeah um
00:31:28.960 and I I mean like you said we were
00:31:30.799 really young um when I mean we were
00:31:33.880 adults but we were still young adults
00:31:36.600 you know very
00:31:38.080 inexperienced um both of us kind of had
00:31:40.960 I mean you had a really really [ __ ] up
00:31:43.080 childhood and I I had no yeah I had a
00:31:46.960 [ __ ] up childhood in a in a different
00:31:49.240 way um you know so when we became
00:31:52.799 parents and the whole question do we we
00:31:55.200 you know do we stay active as Satanist
00:31:57.720 and not at that time I think we made the
00:32:00.919 right choice yeah at at this time I
00:32:04.080 probably would have done it a little
00:32:05.919 different but again that's because I
00:32:07.639 feel like TST has made Satanism safer in
00:32:11.519 general you know um but there's there's
00:32:14.360 still aspects that you know I I look
00:32:16.880 back at and and um you know I don't I
00:32:20.440 don't know how I would be right now
00:32:23.840 coming out the gate if we were having
00:32:25.519 our first child and we were very young
00:32:28.279 again you know it's it's it it there's
00:32:30.880 not really a manual out there for it I I
00:32:34.240 know what I used to guide me was all the
00:32:38.159 things my parents did that sucked I kind
00:32:41.600 of said I'm never doing that oh my gosh
00:32:45.120 yeah and and I I stuck by that uh you
00:32:48.480 know pretty well and I know there was a
00:32:50.440 point where you know you were interested
00:32:53.000 in in Christianity and and it was more
00:32:56.519 of a Community because being a Satanist
00:32:59.360 can be lonely especially pre TST pre
00:33:04.200 internet the way pre- social media pre-
00:33:06.919 social media and pre say we had internet
00:33:09.720 forums and stuff but cosos is for all
00:33:13.200 the things that they do have and they do
00:33:14.679 have a community they do have groups
00:33:17.000 that get together they do some events
00:33:19.120 I'm not going to say there aren't things
00:33:20.399 that they they they do things it's just
00:33:22.760 very different um and the thing I love
00:33:24.919 about TST is you know we have
00:33:27.559 congregations congregation leaders get
00:33:29.600 to kind of set the pace based on what
00:33:31.480 their Community wants and work with
00:33:33.159 their Community to try and bring those
00:33:35.000 things to life and then you know as
00:33:37.320 congregation heads our responsibility is
00:33:39.519 to hear those things and do what we can
00:33:41.240 to push for them and that's that's the
00:33:43.480 cool Dynamic right so you build that
00:33:45.240 Community you you create it into
00:33:47.279 something that becomes a safe fun
00:33:49.919 environment for individuals to then
00:33:52.000 experience Satanism and have what a lot
00:33:54.200 of other religions bring mhm yeah I mean
00:33:56.679 so that was that that was sort of the
00:34:00.000 the reason why you you started exploring
00:34:02.880 that seem so happy and honestly they
00:34:05.960 seemed like they had a great support
00:34:07.399 system the kids were all involved there
00:34:09.480 was a lot of things from the outside
00:34:11.199 that seemed really interesting about it
00:34:13.280 and it was something I didn't really
00:34:14.599 have any experience with so you know we
00:34:16.760 had moved and we were in a new place uh
00:34:19.399 I believe I was invited to some of the
00:34:21.079 Bible studies by one my neighbor other
00:34:23.599 time who was a lovely woman and um you
00:34:27.040 know it kind of went from there where I
00:34:28.599 was just really curious but the whole
00:34:30.440 time it was a lot of sometimes they
00:34:32.280 would get frustrated because I'd always
00:34:33.560 ask a lot of questions um which I think
00:34:36.239 was kind of the downfall of why it was a
00:34:37.918 very it was a long period but it was
00:34:39.639 also very short it was only a couple
00:34:40.918 years and in the grand scheme it's not
00:34:43.320 long but it was it was long enough yeah
00:34:45.879 it was long enough and of course being
00:34:47.800 the overachiever that I am I had to
00:34:49.760 choose some Evangelical churches right
00:34:51.879 because those are the ones that you
00:34:53.560 definitely want to try out when you're
00:34:55.239 when you're exploring something um and
00:34:57.440 so that may have probably been a a bit
00:34:59.880 of a color into what my my experience
00:35:02.079 was though I did know some folks that
00:35:03.440 were methodists and Lutheran and got to
00:35:05.400 hang out with them and have
00:35:06.680 conversations and I have to say they
00:35:08.359 were a lot more down toe and open-minded
00:35:10.839 and interesting to to interact with yeah
00:35:13.520 but I mean I heard this a long time ago
00:35:16.200 when I first started exploring Satanism
00:35:19.520 um and I I heard it again I've heard it
00:35:21.920 in cosos I heard it in TOs and I heard
00:35:24.119 it in you know just about every
00:35:25.640 left-hand path is once you've gone down
00:35:29.000 the left- hand path it's kind of like
00:35:30.760 you've poked holes in that Veil it's
00:35:33.800 really hard to put that Veil back on and
00:35:36.599 be blind to everything that your eyes
00:35:39.119 were open to before about you know all
00:35:42.119 the [ __ ] and it is really hard to
00:35:44.240 just accept and swallow all that
00:35:46.079 [ __ ] that comes along with you know
00:35:48.240 religion like that well and and even you
00:35:51.119 know our kids were all pretty much still
00:35:53.560 young when we started doing that they
00:35:55.240 were um they were not very excited about
00:35:57.960 it they did not enjoy a lot of the they
00:36:01.400 went to the classes they did the Sunday
00:36:03.240 School thing I mean they tried it we all
00:36:05.720 tried it and they just were very
00:36:07.400 underwhelmed with their experience and
00:36:09.440 not because we weren't really giving it
00:36:11.319 a good go we did it just didn't it just
00:36:13.839 didn't make sense we tried to make sense
00:36:15.920 of it it just really the community was
00:36:17.960 cool a lot of the folks were great
00:36:19.599 people you know provided you believed as
00:36:22.079 they did um once it became clear that we
00:36:24.319 weren't necessarily in line with that a
00:36:26.200 lot of them you know slowly kind of
00:36:27.839 pulled back yeah and then we were like
00:36:30.319 screw that because my I mean I know with
00:36:33.520 me and even with you you know our core
00:36:36.359 beliefs never really changed you know
00:36:39.680 and which is why we would ask so many
00:36:41.560 questions you know and we would poke
00:36:43.480 holes in this or that or this or that
00:36:45.520 and we just I I don't think you know
00:36:47.440 when I look back at that part of our
00:36:49.119 Lives we truly weren't happy you know
00:36:51.319 because we were trying and it really was
00:36:54.280 again you have to understand the the
00:36:57.400 time no social media um no real contact
00:37:02.040 with other satanists other than maybe an
00:37:03.880 IRC Channel or something like that you
00:37:06.319 know and I mean I think towards the end
00:37:08.599 it was like Myspace was still going but
00:37:10.480 it was starting to end and there was
00:37:12.079 like early early Twitter maybe but there
00:37:14.640 really wasn't still like identified
00:37:16.760 communities in that way so yeah there
00:37:19.079 were conversations out there but there
00:37:21.640 was a lot of interesting I mean you'll
00:37:23.640 find them still today there's some
00:37:25.040 interesting folks that call themselves
00:37:26.680 sess but
00:37:28.200 um you know yeah so um all that being
00:37:32.240 said I think now I probably would have
00:37:34.800 approached it a bit different than than
00:37:37.160 back then because back back then it
00:37:38.800 really was as a safe um you know or my
00:37:42.440 kids going to be ostracizes I would say
00:37:44.240 the current generation is a lot more
00:37:47.480 accepting um inclusive is is the word I
00:37:50.760 should use you know than they were back
00:37:54.400 in the day um well and I would say
00:37:56.119 approachable
00:37:57.680 Satanism now with with a lot of the work
00:38:00.079 that TST has put into it there is a
00:38:02.520 community that is available and present
00:38:05.400 and out there doing things and people
00:38:07.480 can see what they're doing and so it's
00:38:10.040 not such a mystery what are they what
00:38:12.160 are they all about what are they doing
00:38:14.119 are they killing cats at midnight
00:38:15.880 drinking
00:38:16.880 babies you know again you're never going
00:38:19.079 to get away from that with with radicals
00:38:21.839 you know I still here to this day people
00:38:23.880 still message me and tell me how I'm I'm
00:38:27.000 you know murdering babies and drinking
00:38:28.920 their blood and all of that sort of
00:38:30.720 stuff and you know I I guess I got a
00:38:34.119 really bad case of sleepwalking or
00:38:36.200 something because I just don't remember
00:38:38.760 sh sybol yeah but no um but yes as as as
00:38:44.800 parents you know your job is is to help
00:38:47.800 guide and support your children I would
00:38:50.440 say that's the most important part of
00:38:52.240 being a parent and I don't think that
00:38:54.240 changes whether you're a Satanist or
00:38:56.640 you're an atheist or you know even if
00:38:58.760 you're other religions just other
00:39:00.520 religions push you into indoctrination
00:39:03.560 for your children whereas Satanism is
00:39:06.280 very much against indoctrinating
00:39:08.560 children yeah um and again you know then
00:39:11.079 you go back to the argument of what is
00:39:14.000 what is
00:39:14.960 indoctrination snatch up a little air
00:39:16.880 time here because there was something I
00:39:18.599 read that really stuck with me by um a
00:39:21.000 neuros psychologist named Nicholas
00:39:22.960 Humphrey and he had this U he did an
00:39:25.240 Oxford amnesty lecture quite some time
00:39:27.760 ago um and what he said really I think
00:39:30.280 captured it best and I'm going to just
00:39:32.040 go through like the smaller segment of
00:39:33.800 this but he said children I'll argue
00:39:35.960 have a human right not to have their
00:39:37.440 minds crippled by exposure to other
00:39:39.280 people's bad ideas no matter who those
00:39:41.359 other people are parents correspondingly
00:39:43.200 have no god-given license to enculturate
00:39:45.760 their children to whatever ways they
00:39:47.480 personally choose no right to limit the
00:39:49.040 horizons of their child's knowledge to
00:39:50.640 bring them up in an atmosphere of dogma
00:39:52.440 and Superstition or to insist they
00:39:54.319 follow the straight and narrow Paths of
00:39:55.880 Their Own faith in short children have a
00:39:57.760 right not to have their minds addled by
00:39:59.400 nonsense and we as a society have a duty
00:40:01.480 to protect them from it so we should no
00:40:03.240 more allow parents to teach their
00:40:04.520 children to believe for example in the
00:40:06.160 literal truth of the Bible or that the
00:40:08.599 planets rule their lives then we should
00:40:10.480 allow parents to knock their children's
00:40:11.960 teeth out or lock them in a dungeon and
00:40:14.280 I really thought well yeah that that
00:40:16.520 makes a a lot of sense to me so you have
00:40:18.680 to carefully consider what what it is
00:40:20.720 you're exposing your kids to and you
00:40:22.560 have to give them the opportunity to to
00:40:24.839 challenge that and to have an opinion
00:40:27.119 and to have a voice and to teach them to
00:40:29.240 use that voice and to speak for
00:40:31.040 themselves yeah and you know as our
00:40:33.720 children grew up as they become
00:40:35.640 teenagers as they became young adults um
00:40:38.839 obviously they knew who mom and dad are
00:40:41.520 now they they know that you know every
00:40:43.800 single one of our children now know that
00:40:45.720 we're Satanist they're they're all 15
00:40:48.079 and above you know some of them are in
00:40:49.520 their 20s there's no use of hiding that
00:40:52.640 you know and we always had a library of
00:40:55.359 various books you know from everything
00:40:58.160 from sci-fi to some satanic books you
00:41:00.560 know all sorts of stuff which was
00:41:03.000 accessible to our children if they were
00:41:06.000 interested in reading them you know um
00:41:08.599 and again we would answer questions as
00:41:10.920 they became teenagers they did become
00:41:13.839 more curious as far as you know hey you
00:41:17.400 know what is this what is this thing
00:41:19.240 y'all do and and we would always as we
00:41:21.920 explain things always always always make
00:41:25.079 sure they understood look just because
00:41:27.560 we follow this path does not mean you
00:41:31.319 need to follow this path doesn't mean
00:41:32.839 you need to be interested in it doesn't
00:41:34.599 mean you need to do anything you be you
00:41:37.880 and if it interest you cool I'll answer
00:41:40.560 questions for you um you know really I
00:41:43.359 don't think you should join any
00:41:44.680 religious organization until you're
00:41:46.319 about 18 and can make your own your own
00:41:49.000 mind up but that doesn't mean as a
00:41:51.040 teenager you know sometimes TST
00:41:53.480 congregations will have familyfriendly
00:41:56.000 events you know obviously that's not a
00:41:58.000 black mass right well and then if you
00:42:01.319 look at like the recent thing we were
00:42:03.079 involved in with the protect children
00:42:04.480 project where if you affiliate that
00:42:06.400 doesn't mean you're necessarily a
00:42:08.079 full-fledged member but if you as a a
00:42:10.599 youth affiliate with Satanism and
00:42:12.560 identify as a Satanist um then you have
00:42:15.440 the right to the same protections
00:42:16.720 religiously that you would for other
00:42:18.599 things I mean for me and this is me
00:42:20.920 speaking as me for me when you have
00:42:23.160 parents out there pushing their kids to
00:42:25.200 like not get vac inations or things that
00:42:27.280 are healthy and important for them and
00:42:29.000 then you have religious exemptions for
00:42:30.920 that uh what I like is for as a Satanist
00:42:33.839 you have the right to not have things
00:42:36.640 pushed on you you have the right to use
00:42:37.960 a bathroom you have the right not to be
00:42:39.760 struck in school you have the right not
00:42:41.280 to be restrained these are things that
00:42:43.079 are based on that again bodily autonomy
00:42:45.160 that I always say is so important
00:42:46.839 because it applies to just about
00:42:48.119 everything in your life um you know as a
00:42:50.280 younger person having the right to have
00:42:52.800 the backing of a religious organization
00:42:55.880 something people use that negatively
00:42:57.359 right for certain other things to have
00:42:59.119 the backing up religious organization
00:43:00.480 and say no you're not going to violate
00:43:02.559 these young people they have rights too
00:43:05.240 yeah I mean because me myself I I got
00:43:08.359 interested in Satanism and I I read the
00:43:10.559 Satanic Bible before I was 18 you know I
00:43:14.000 I kind of knew I identified in that way
00:43:17.280 before that I just couldn't join
00:43:20.040 anything until I was 18 and I understand
00:43:23.240 that but it would have been nice to at
00:43:25.480 least be able to say you know and I
00:43:27.559 remember even as a teenager I would
00:43:29.280 still claim that I was a Satanist but
00:43:32.720 that was me myself I I consciously made
00:43:35.839 that choice um I didn't need a red card
00:43:40.200 to to prove that or to officially be a
00:43:45.760 Satanist you know and as a child or a
00:43:49.079 teenager I should say if a teenager has
00:43:52.280 done their own research and has made up
00:43:54.319 their own mind then then great they can
00:43:56.680 do that because the wonderful thing
00:43:58.599 about being human is you can change your
00:44:00.720 mind MH you know and as long as your
00:44:03.680 children know that you're going to
00:44:06.200 support them as they go through
00:44:08.760 different phases as they as they explore
00:44:12.079 themselves and you know as they explore
00:44:14.559 who they are that's the most important
00:44:18.319 thing you know because somebody might
00:44:21.040 identify as a Satanist as a teenager and
00:44:23.559 then when they get a little bit older
00:44:25.400 they might say you know what I I don't
00:44:27.319 identify as that anymore now I'm this
00:44:30.160 and and people will take their whole
00:44:32.079 lives to go through religious you know
00:44:35.559 what are the discoveries you know some
00:44:37.400 people it takes them a long time and
00:44:39.119 that's fine and it should it should and
00:44:41.760 and you should always challenge even
00:44:44.000 even as long as I've been a Satanist I
00:44:46.319 should still challenge myself does this
00:44:49.359 still fit mhm for me and that's the one
00:44:52.200 thing that you know that's one of the
00:44:53.599 other things we we try to as parents
00:44:56.720 instill in our children is you know
00:44:59.000 continue to challenge yourself continue
00:45:01.079 to educate yourself and know just
00:45:03.440 because you identify as as whatever be
00:45:06.440 it religion or something like that that
00:45:08.480 doesn't mean you're stamped with that
00:45:09.920 for the rest of your life you know use
00:45:12.119 your critical thinking skills and
00:45:14.640 understand you can change that and us as
00:45:16.800 your parents we're going to love you
00:45:19.920 anyways yeah conditional love like I
00:45:22.400 said really trips me up I don't
00:45:24.160 understand it I get people have bound
00:45:26.160 limitations preferences I get all that
00:45:28.240 that's fine but when it comes to being a
00:45:29.839 parent your kids never to be fair chose
00:45:32.520 you as parents there was no way for them
00:45:34.400 to so you're kind of obligated to be the
00:45:36.480 best parent you can be and give them the
00:45:39.040 best experience you can so that you can
00:45:40.720 send them out into the world to be
00:45:41.920 confident individuals that have the
00:45:44.000 skills they need to start life that's
00:45:45.880 your whole entire goal and hopefully a
00:45:47.559 life better than yours yeah and so you
00:45:50.359 know like I said this this subject came
00:45:52.640 up it comes up you know from time to
00:45:55.480 time as we talk to new people sometimes
00:45:58.319 even as as other satanic parents meet
00:46:00.960 and talk to each other how did you do
00:46:03.040 this why did you do that you know blah
00:46:05.079 blah blah um but around the holidays it
00:46:08.520 can become even more so because then
00:46:11.240 you're interacting not only with your
00:46:13.680 own children but a lot of times people
00:46:15.400 are interacting with other family
00:46:17.000 members and how do I do this you know do
00:46:20.280 we do we put a Christmas tree up or not
00:46:22.920 and you know my answer is kind of like
00:46:24.640 well do you want a Christmas tree
00:46:26.520 mhm you know are your children
00:46:28.559 interested in Christmas okay to have
00:46:31.040 like what people consider traditional
00:46:33.440 celebration and and traditional you know
00:46:36.359 activities too it's fine to put up a
00:46:38.440 tree it's fine to put up you know
00:46:40.319 pictures of Santa or to to talk about
00:46:43.680 fun things like that or it's fine to to
00:46:46.839 have these kind of traditions just
00:46:48.480 because you're a Satanist doesn't mean
00:46:49.839 you can't have these Traditions yeah I
00:46:52.119 mean the Christmas tree and stuff was
00:46:53.319 stolen anyway so you know that's a whole
00:46:55.920 yeah yeah I mean we kind of did but yeah
00:46:59.440 I mean so a lot of things were stolen
00:47:01.319 anyway so you know claim them back if
00:47:03.359 you want to yeah we also like we've
00:47:05.400 talked about we know lots of pagan
00:47:07.359 individuals and they also do very
00:47:10.040 different celebrations you can do join
00:47:12.359 in with those folks enjoy those
00:47:13.720 celebrations involve your kids celebrate
00:47:15.800 ules celebrate Solstice go to some of
00:47:18.119 these events and uh you know stop by the
00:47:20.599 library pick up some cool book I know
00:47:22.680 maybe your library is not as accepting
00:47:24.240 to these things but go to the Li and
00:47:26.040 pick up some cool books about different
00:47:27.920 types of celebrations and share that
00:47:29.680 with your kids ask them what they like
00:47:31.359 create your own Traditions yeah I mean I
00:47:34.359 remember one year I even tried to be I I
00:47:37.680 I tried to have different members of
00:47:39.440 family over and I tried to be the
00:47:41.200 encompassing celebration sort of an
00:47:43.400 encompassing all-inclusive celebration I
00:47:45.800 said we are going to celebrate Christmas
00:47:48.160 Ule Solstice Sol vicus you know whatever
00:47:52.079 the hell you want we are going to
00:47:54.800 celebrate that if if you want to go in
00:47:56.800 the corner and pray and before your food
00:47:59.920 do that if you don't don't um you know
00:48:02.880 and as we celebrate we're just supposed
00:48:05.760 to be celebrating the company of each
00:48:08.599 other you know the joy of family and all
00:48:12.720 of that sort of stuff and I think it
00:48:14.640 worked well for some and it did not work
00:48:16.760 well for my very Christian parents you
00:48:20.319 know I I argue though I argue that it
00:48:22.680 didn't work well because I think having
00:48:24.599 the opportunity to do it right being
00:48:26.839 open to it letting the kids participate
00:48:29.680 in all those different things choose how
00:48:31.119 they want to participate letting your
00:48:33.000 parents know it's fine for them to pray
00:48:34.960 I don't care if you pray in my house
00:48:36.160 it's not like we're going to burst into
00:48:37.359 flames or anything like that so go ahead
00:48:40.079 it's your your call do it um the only
00:48:43.040 time I've ever had a problem with their
00:48:45.000 specific religious beliefs the way that
00:48:46.640 they interpret them is like there was
00:48:48.520 this very sort of I guess backhanded
00:48:51.599 crap on their whiteboard was like must
00:48:53.480 pray for so and so and their family
00:48:56.480 I was like okay that's that's a little
00:48:59.160 yeah that's a little I don't care if you
00:49:01.280 pray I don't care if you invite my kids
00:49:03.319 to pray with you because you know as
00:49:06.200 long as you give them the freedom to say
00:49:08.280 no and don't hold it against them or
00:49:10.280 make them feel pressure right cuz that's
00:49:13.119 that's sort of where we gave our kids
00:49:14.839 like almost a safe word um which is kind
00:49:18.480 of sad that you you have to do that when
00:49:21.559 it comes to really radical religious
00:49:24.200 people but you know if they didn't want
00:49:26.559 to do something they could either say
00:49:28.400 something or throw us a look or
00:49:29.920 something like that and then we would
00:49:31.319 intervene and say you know what um they
00:49:33.359 don't want to do that yeah and and so
00:49:35.920 you guys go do what you're going to do
00:49:37.599 and you know we're going to be hanging
00:49:39.119 out here and when you're done we're
00:49:40.760 still all going to be hanging out here
00:49:42.319 and you could spend more time with your
00:49:43.760 grandkids yeah but but that's again like
00:49:46.319 the important thing is empowering your
00:49:47.680 kids to learn to be confident and that's
00:49:49.920 a great way to build that confidence is
00:49:51.640 to help them understand that they do
00:49:53.640 have the right to enforce boundaries
00:49:55.200 even as a kid and that just helps them
00:49:57.240 to grow in that and be more able to
00:49:59.559 speak for themselves and on their own
00:50:01.119 behalf eventually maybe they don't but
00:50:03.160 kids are supposed to be learning and um
00:50:07.559 being afraid to confront a difficult
00:50:09.559 situation is very natural you know
00:50:11.280 helping to encourage them you know if
00:50:12.520 you if you are uncomfortable you can say
00:50:14.440 something letting them know like you
00:50:15.720 have a voice MH but if you're not
00:50:18.280 comfortable enough then we can step in
00:50:20.480 but you do want to help them to start to
00:50:22.200 do their own speaking up that doesn't
00:50:24.400 mean you force them into you know tell
00:50:26.079 them to go [ __ ] themselves obviously
00:50:27.839 you're not telling your kids to do that
00:50:29.720 what you're saying is you know you're
00:50:31.240 okay to say you know I'd rather not or
00:50:32.960 or no thank you or do it that way but if
00:50:35.960 you really just don't feel like you you
00:50:38.200 enjoy this because it's a very
00:50:39.599 confrontational situation for a kid y um
00:50:43.040 then just let us know and we'll
00:50:44.240 intervene and we've done that before you
00:50:45.839 know I know they got invited to like a a
00:50:47.960 dinner or something with your with your
00:50:50.880 parents and I think they meant well
00:50:54.119 because it wasn't during normal Church
00:50:55.960 hours but it was I'm just saying in
00:50:58.960 their own way they thought it was a
00:51:00.359 happy medium right so they invited the
00:51:03.240 kids to the spaghetti dinner church that
00:51:05.880 was at the church property but it wasn't
00:51:08.040 during Church hours but the church folks
00:51:09.880 were going to be there but it wasn't
00:51:11.400 about prayer and this is the explanation
00:51:13.680 they're giving us and so the the kids
00:51:16.440 kind of said hey I got this invitation
00:51:19.160 um I really don't want to do it and I'm
00:51:20.920 not sure how to approach it because I
00:51:22.400 could tell they really want to hang out
00:51:23.720 and I want to hang out with them too but
00:51:25.559 I don't want to do it here so then me
00:51:27.799 being me and if you guys know me you
00:51:29.599 know I I went ahead and send a message
00:51:31.720 pretty direct say hey you know the kids
00:51:33.680 mentioned that you guys want to do this
00:51:35.000 thing and I know we've talked about it
00:51:37.599 uh but they don't want to go to church
00:51:39.000 or you know be on the church you know
00:51:41.920 property or do the events and they were
00:51:43.520 like well it's not church function
00:51:46.240 because even though it's at the church
00:51:48.559 they're not doing anything formally I
00:51:50.400 said no no no but it's on the church
00:51:52.160 property it's on the church property
00:51:53.680 it's run by the church people it is an
00:51:55.559 event put on by the church so yes yeah I
00:51:57.880 get that you don't see it as a church
00:51:59.720 function because it's outside of the
00:52:01.520 normal hours which is fine but it's
00:52:04.040 still a church fun but they're going to
00:52:05.480 still probably have some of the very
00:52:07.799 normal Associated events and the kids
00:52:10.160 really just would rather not so can we
00:52:11.680 schedule something at different point
00:52:13.640 and this led to a whole thing it really
00:52:16.799 did it became back and forth text
00:52:18.359 messages that turned into emails that
00:52:19.839 turned into an actual physical meeting
00:52:22.680 which which you know went less than
00:52:24.760 stellar we've talked about that meeting
00:52:27.160 um where I may have slipped and said
00:52:28.920 well I'm a Satanist so this forgiveness
00:52:30.920 method that you're talking about is
00:52:32.160 completely foreign to me because
00:52:33.280 forgiveness is action and I don't just
00:52:35.200 forgive and that that became a whole
00:52:37.000 other conversation yeah um so yeah yeah
00:52:40.960 and I would say as as parents you also
00:52:43.240 have to you know part part of your job
00:52:45.920 is to protect your children and and to
00:52:48.839 realize when something is going on and
00:52:52.119 we noticed something very early on as we
00:52:54.680 were trying to allow our children to
00:52:56.880 have a relationship with their their
00:52:58.480 grandparents is that the only night they
00:53:00.480 wanted them to sleep over was Saturday
00:53:02.720 nights and it did not take very long for
00:53:05.359 me to figure out okay the only reason
00:53:07.319 why they want them to sleep over is so
00:53:09.160 that they can bring them to church in
00:53:10.520 the morning which again I was okay with
00:53:13.559 my children going to church if they
00:53:15.960 wanted to go to church but when it
00:53:19.359 crosses over into indoctrination that's
00:53:22.040 when I was not okay with it and I was
00:53:24.760 like know y'all are retired so you can
00:53:27.640 literally have the children over any
00:53:30.799 night of the week it's not like you have
00:53:32.640 to get up go to work in the morning or
00:53:34.359 anything like that so it becomes pretty
00:53:37.160 transparent when the only night is
00:53:39.880 Saturdays and that's when again as
00:53:42.000 parents we had to step in and just kind
00:53:43.920 of call [ __ ] to that well and to be
00:53:46.520 fair at first we were fine because the
00:53:47.920 kids were fine with it and so we were
00:53:49.640 fine with it but they became
00:53:50.599 uncomfortable what they weren't
00:53:52.359 necessarily telling us and again kids
00:53:53.839 don't feel comfortable articulating
00:53:55.240 things even to you even if you've been
00:53:56.880 safe and listen and all those things you
00:53:59.640 know you have to check in with them
00:54:00.799 because they don't feel comfortable
00:54:02.200 sharing certain things it's just the way
00:54:03.880 they are so it became apparent when our
00:54:08.000 you know second youngest so we've got
00:54:09.559 too old or too younger and so the older
00:54:12.000 of the two younger ones says they make
00:54:14.000 me get up early I don't like doing it
00:54:16.280 they get really mad and frustrated when
00:54:18.680 I don't want to do it because I'm not
00:54:20.839 awake or I don't want to so it was
00:54:22.960 pretty clear that not only were they
00:54:24.599 getting them early and bringing them to
00:54:26.559 church but they didn't actually want to
00:54:28.319 go yeah um and they were pretty much
00:54:30.599 making them feel like it was rude of
00:54:32.400 them to be there and they were obligated
00:54:34.240 to participate and that is exactly what
00:54:36.760 I didn't want to have happen so when
00:54:38.960 they made it clear you this is what's
00:54:40.720 happening this is how I feel this is how
00:54:43.000 they're making me feel then we addressed
00:54:45.200 it at that point yeah and so you know
00:54:48.359 it's again as a as a Satanist and a
00:54:51.559 parent it's you know not all that
00:54:54.640 difficult you know you you just you I I
00:54:57.280 I just keep going back to you give your
00:54:59.559 children support you know that you're
00:55:01.319 there for them and that includes even in
00:55:03.599 school you know I mean we we we taught
00:55:07.000 our children the the same thing that you
00:55:09.480 know TST we we had the demonstration
00:55:12.640 about up in in uh in Dumis before TST
00:55:15.960 even had this program we were out there
00:55:17.640 teaching we were already teaching our
00:55:19.680 kids this you know if you need to go to
00:55:21.160 the bathroom you go to the bathroom you
00:55:23.000 know um if the school gets at you have
00:55:25.839 them call me you know you're never going
00:55:27.599 to get in trouble at home unless you're
00:55:29.440 abusing the privilege right you know so
00:55:31.799 as long as you you're not like abusing
00:55:34.640 you're not skipping class on purpose to
00:55:37.680 go to the bathroom and hang out in the
00:55:39.039 bathroom the whole time you know if you
00:55:40.760 have to go to the bathroom go to the
00:55:41.760 bathroom if the school gets you in
00:55:42.839 trouble well [ __ ] the school you're not
00:55:44.599 going to be grounded here or anything
00:55:46.599 like that and I remember our second
00:55:48.359 oldest daughter she when she was in high
00:55:50.559 school she was like hey I need to use
00:55:52.480 the bathroom to the teacher and the
00:55:53.640 teacher said no which always baffled my
00:55:56.400 mind I'm like you know in this day and
00:55:58.200 age you know we're we're not training
00:56:00.720 children to be in the 1920s Factory line
00:56:04.599 where you know you have to stand on a
00:56:06.240 line for 8 hours before you can take a
00:56:08.359 pee break or something like that you
00:56:09.880 know most every job I've ever had in my
00:56:12.559 life from McDonald's to whatever if I
00:56:15.119 had to go pee I could go pee you know
00:56:17.880 and so she stood up and the teacher said
00:56:20.760 what are you doing and she said look I
00:56:24.039 have to go pee so either I'm going to
00:56:26.839 pee in the trash can here in front of
00:56:28.799 the class or I'm going to go to the
00:56:30.640 bathroom and go pee you make your choice
00:56:33.000 tell me which one you want me to do and
00:56:35.480 knowing this daughter of ours she would
00:56:38.039 have actually peed in the trash can in
00:56:40.119 front of the class yes she would that's
00:56:42.640 one of the things I love about her she's
00:56:44.119 my very bold very outspoken one and and
00:56:47.799 the teacher you know let her go to the
00:56:50.359 bathroom and there was no con you know
00:56:52.280 we never got a phone call or anything
00:56:53.799 like that the school's learned really
00:56:55.200 early the schools learn if you are an
00:56:57.720 active parent and you stick up for your
00:56:59.559 children and you don't let them do the
00:57:01.920 [ __ ] that they try and pull with
00:57:03.359 other kids they learn really quick that
00:57:06.319 it's kind of pointless to call you
00:57:07.920 they're not going to make go any
00:57:09.440 progress like when you're we probably
00:57:11.640 already mentioned this one like when the
00:57:13.680 um when the phone situation yeah the
00:57:15.480 phone situation happens to our second
00:57:17.039 old or second youngest uh they said they
00:57:20.160 were in school and it was during a
00:57:21.920 period they were allowed to kind of look
00:57:23.799 at their phones on and off but they had
00:57:25.720 picked it up I guess in a period where
00:57:27.799 they weren't necessarily supposed to cuz
00:57:29.599 they were checking something I think
00:57:31.200 it's cuz they weren't feeling good and
00:57:32.319 they were trying to reach out to me yeah
00:57:34.440 um but they they picked up the phone and
00:57:37.240 uh the teacher is like well you know I'm
00:57:39.000 going to take up your phone and you need
00:57:40.640 to let me into the phone and then
00:57:42.520 hilarity ensued yeah they I I get a
00:57:45.680 phone call from the principal at school
00:57:47.680 and the principal's like we have so and
00:57:50.520 so here in our office with us and I'm
00:57:52.319 like okay and they're like you know she
00:57:55.520 was she used her phone in class she
00:57:57.960 wasn't supposed to and when we asked her
00:58:00.960 for her phone and to give us access to
00:58:03.720 her phone she denied us said no do you
00:58:07.240 have a warrant MH and so there was a
00:58:10.480 pause and I said well do you have a
00:58:12.799 warrant and then there was a really
00:58:14.920 really long pause from the principal and
00:58:16.640 she said no I don't think you understand
00:58:18.520 I said no no no I don't think you
00:58:20.799 understand look if my child uses a phone
00:58:23.400 when they're not supposed to that's fine
00:58:25.240 write her a detention you can do that
00:58:27.599 you can tell her to take her phone and
00:58:29.319 put her phone away if she doesn't listen
00:58:31.640 you can discipline her by giving her a
00:58:33.400 detention or whatever it is but you do
00:58:35.319 not have the permission to open up her
00:58:37.480 phone and go through her phone why would
00:58:39.440 you need to go through her phone well we
00:58:41.520 wanted to see who she was talking to or
00:58:44.480 what she was doing on the phone if she
00:58:46.440 was cheating or something it was like
00:58:48.119 does this during a test no okay then
00:58:51.119 again why are you wanting to go you know
00:58:53.520 it's just a power trip that the schools
00:58:55.480 get into sometimes and I was like look
00:58:57.920 again I'll support if y'all want to give
00:58:59.640 her a detention give her a detention but
00:59:01.599 you don't touch that [ __ ] phone
00:59:03.160 unless you have a warrant and that was
00:59:05.039 the last time they called me about
00:59:06.880 anything like that true story it's just
00:59:09.839 it's weird and there's many different
00:59:11.920 instances where the schools have done
00:59:13.559 some very shady things our oldest one
00:59:15.760 had a a teacher actually throw away a
00:59:17.680 project and pretend they didn't get the
00:59:19.599 project turned in and then I made them
00:59:21.160 pull up the video which happened to be
00:59:23.160 and then the teacher got caught lying I
00:59:25.640 mean again just because they're an adult
00:59:27.599 and they're older than you does not make
00:59:28.960 them honest orre or people that deserve
00:59:32.440 your respect adults can be just as
00:59:34.280 crappy as anybody else and as a kid
00:59:36.839 learning that early is very important to
00:59:38.720 identify people that are good or bad
00:59:40.240 based on how they treat you and how they
00:59:42.000 behave is a very important skill yep and
00:59:45.000 and with our oldest it was because she
00:59:47.000 was gay she was openly gay in high
00:59:48.960 school and and so the teacher was trying
00:59:51.680 to pull a fast one and and basically
00:59:54.280 make her her uh get a zero on her final
00:59:57.680 exam which was a you know a project she
01:00:00.280 put together what they didn't expect is
01:00:01.960 that I would fly practically up to the
01:00:03.960 school end up directly telling them that
01:00:06.400 they're going to have me with the
01:00:08.440 principal uh immediately I needed a
01:00:10.799 meeting immediately with them and that
01:00:12.720 this was going to be sorted they did not
01:00:14.079 expect that kind of like ferocity to
01:00:16.760 just hit them in the doorsteps so I just
01:00:18.599 showed up we're going to do this I need
01:00:20.119 to know about this this is what happened
01:00:22.039 what are we doing and they were to their
01:00:24.200 credit the administrator immediately
01:00:26.200 pulls up the video immediately sees that
01:00:28.280 in fact it was turned in and then
01:00:30.440 handled the situation and um again this
01:00:33.520 this is how screwed up this was it was
01:00:35.039 found behind the trash so it was a big
01:00:37.200 poster board that they had worked on all
01:00:39.480 like last a little big thing that they
01:00:43.000 put under the door because the teacher
01:00:44.240 told them they had to turn it in and
01:00:45.880 they weren't in the classroom the door
01:00:47.480 was closed so they put it under the door
01:00:49.680 and the the trash wasn't like right by
01:00:51.520 the door where they may have
01:00:53.119 accidentally pushed it when the door
01:00:54.200 opened and it was up by a table against
01:00:56.799 the Blackboard area and so or whiteboard
01:00:59.720 they don't really use Blackboard anymore
01:01:01.160 the other the the teacher actually had
01:01:02.920 another teacher next door that lied too
01:01:05.240 and said that um our daughter was never
01:01:07.640 in the hallway before 7:30 because she
01:01:10.480 was standing out there the whole time
01:01:11.720 and they didn't expect them to run the
01:01:13.280 tape they didn't realize I I I guess
01:01:16.599 people still are dumb enough to not
01:01:18.720 realize you're on video almost anywhere
01:01:21.480 you go anything you do now especially in
01:01:24.000 the school so it was really easy to kind
01:01:26.240 of prove that one and show them both on
01:01:28.280 video and show the teacher on video and
01:01:30.760 all that so it is important you know
01:01:32.680 again that's another life skill listen
01:01:34.440 to your kids you yeah one listen to your
01:01:36.960 children when they when they talk to you
01:01:39.119 and they tell you something I mean it's
01:01:40.960 also important for children to
01:01:43.119 understand and when I say children again
01:01:45.160 this was she was a teenager but she's
01:01:46.920 still a minor to understand that just
01:01:48.839 because an adult does something doesn't
01:01:50.640 make it right and just because another
01:01:52.839 adult backs up that ad adult doing
01:01:55.079 something wrong doesn't make it right
01:01:57.200 and if you know you're in the right that
01:01:59.520 your parents will always support you
01:02:02.119 well hopefully hopefully and that's what
01:02:03.839 I hope not as as a Satanist I would hope
01:02:06.480 as parents give your kids the benefit of
01:02:08.520 the doubt and understand Growing Up Is
01:02:10.960 Hard figuring out your place in society
01:02:13.079 is hard knowing who you are I I still
01:02:15.279 don't even always know who I am and I'm
01:02:17.240 a whole ass adult so you know give them
01:02:19.920 a little leeway this is a very
01:02:21.839 challenging period of their life uh
01:02:24.119 remember what it was like for you yeah I
01:02:26.200 was about to say I think a lot of
01:02:27.559 parents they get this Amnesia they
01:02:29.319 forget what it was like to be a child
01:02:31.720 they forget what it was like to be a
01:02:33.200 teenager and then the other thing that I
01:02:35.359 see a lot of parents do is they live
01:02:37.960 vicariously through their children
01:02:40.319 because they weren't able to do this
01:02:42.680 they forced their child into doing
01:02:44.960 something their child doesn't want to do
01:02:47.319 you have to join the cheer squad because
01:02:50.240 I had always wanted to be on the cheer
01:02:52.200 squad and I didn't get that opportunity
01:02:54.559 so you have to do it well the you have
01:02:57.880 to do it is the problem there now if the
01:02:59.799 child's interested in it sure support
01:03:02.000 them and all of that sort of stuff but
01:03:03.839 as a parent you don't live vicariously
01:03:06.359 through your children that's that's
01:03:08.119 wrong you allow your children to be
01:03:10.839 their own individuals you can say I
01:03:12.520 really enjoyed choir you know maybe you
01:03:14.119 want to look at that as an option for
01:03:15.760 electives or I really liked this
01:03:18.000 specific class then your kid goes well
01:03:19.839 you know I hate choir I have no interest
01:03:21.839 in singing and it's just like the worst
01:03:23.359 thing you could possibly offer up as an
01:03:25.520 option then you go okay cool what are
01:03:27.559 you interested in doing what else can
01:03:29.359 you do what else do you want to do yeah
01:03:31.599 you know oh you want to do art okay cool
01:03:33.880 I will support you with that you know um
01:03:36.599 and understand that things change
01:03:39.000 sometimes somebody's interested in
01:03:40.440 something and and then they start to do
01:03:43.039 it and they realize they don't like it
01:03:44.799 you know it's happened to me I know I've
01:03:47.480 done stuff that I thought I liked and
01:03:49.520 then when I started doing it I realized
01:03:51.279 I didn't like it you know and imagine
01:03:53.559 somebody forc ing you to say well you
01:03:55.760 pick that you have to go all the way
01:03:58.480 through that's not being supportive you
01:04:00.799 know that's that's again right I mean
01:04:03.400 but it's a fine line right you want to
01:04:04.720 encourage them because you know the
01:04:06.480 inclination to quit when things are
01:04:08.000 difficult definitely happens yes so you
01:04:09.839 want to help them to learn that you can
01:04:11.559 work through difficulties so you ask
01:04:13.599 them why is it you don't like it what is
01:04:15.000 it about it you don't like is it
01:04:16.440 something that you can try and work
01:04:17.760 through but if it's something obviously
01:04:19.440 they just I thought I would like it it
01:04:21.319 just really doesn't interest me I'd like
01:04:23.160 to go to something else yeah you know if
01:04:25.319 the answer from wherever is well right
01:04:27.319 now we can't change it but at this point
01:04:29.160 you can then it's you know what we're
01:04:31.000 going to have to see it through to this
01:04:32.240 and then you can change or sometimes
01:04:34.200 it's you know support your kids in the
01:04:36.279 art of quitting when something isn't
01:04:38.359 healthy or working for them that's
01:04:39.960 something not enough people do it's okay
01:04:42.359 to fail at something it's okay to learn
01:04:45.079 from that experience it's okay to know
01:04:46.880 what your limits are and to stand by
01:04:49.039 that people do it with with work
01:04:50.960 sometimes you'll stay in a job or a
01:04:52.920 relationship or different things that
01:04:54.440 aren't healthy because you feel like you
01:04:56.799 have to that it's something you have no
01:04:58.680 choice in and teaching someone early on
01:05:01.279 how to navigate that reality is so
01:05:04.039 important and so letting know failing is
01:05:06.520 normal and what did you learn from that
01:05:08.920 and and what did you figure out about
01:05:10.279 yourself and what can you take from that
01:05:12.200 and move forward or or knowing that you
01:05:14.520 can have an out like I just don't really
01:05:16.720 enjoy this and I don't want to do it I
01:05:19.000 thought I would it's okay you figured
01:05:21.119 that out that's all that matters and and
01:05:23.440 and failure is a learning point that's
01:05:25.960 that's the other thing that we taught
01:05:27.200 our children is failure is an
01:05:29.559 opportunity is an opportunity and it's
01:05:31.920 what you do with that failure that
01:05:34.400 matters I mean you look at the most
01:05:36.359 successful people in in life they failed
01:05:39.559 they failed multiple times it's what
01:05:41.760 they did with that failure and what they
01:05:44.119 learned from that failure so if you keep
01:05:46.760 failing the same way over and over and
01:05:49.240 over and over and over again then you've
01:05:51.279 got a problem but if you fail and so
01:05:53.559 many parents parents just don't teach
01:05:55.680 the art of failing to their children you
01:05:58.079 know failure is bad failure means you
01:06:00.559 did something wrong you're grounded for
01:06:02.559 failing no it's a learning experience
01:06:05.599 and at least that's the way that we
01:06:08.119 always approach that an indicator you
01:06:10.960 know I I believe our second oldest had
01:06:13.319 they' done very well in school for the
01:06:15.440 most part and then they just reached a
01:06:16.920 period so then we had to start having a
01:06:19.000 conversation is it the subject matter is
01:06:21.240 it the different is it the environment
01:06:23.119 is it something going on in your
01:06:24.400 personal life what's happening and it
01:06:26.359 was through that process of discussion
01:06:28.240 that we realized something else is going
01:06:30.240 on we ended up working with a
01:06:31.839 neurologist and then getting them on
01:06:33.799 medication that was helpful for them to
01:06:35.920 help work through that problem then
01:06:37.200 their grades came right back up they
01:06:38.720 were able to adjust to things they got
01:06:40.640 some 504 plan at school that we helped
01:06:43.319 to shape with the the school
01:06:44.960 administration and and that's just it
01:06:47.359 don't just shut down your kids and say
01:06:49.799 well obviously you you got a C you got a
01:06:52.559 D what's going on here what's wrong with
01:06:54.640 you why aren't you applying yourself
01:06:56.960 maybe they are applying themselves it's
01:06:59.799 so important to stop and say hey I'm I'm
01:07:01.960 seeing this drop it's really different
01:07:03.640 for you what's going on do we need to do
01:07:05.839 some studying do we need to get you in
01:07:07.720 on a tutoring program what can we do to
01:07:10.240 help you because we're noticing this and
01:07:12.480 what you do here in school is going to
01:07:14.400 eventually apply to if you want to go to
01:07:15.880 college and things like that so it's
01:07:17.599 important to consider to to how we can
01:07:19.960 fix these things so that you can be able
01:07:22.359 to achieve yeah and again I think that
01:07:24.480 all comes back down to supporting your
01:07:26.599 children I think if your if your
01:07:28.400 children feel safe at home if they feel
01:07:31.520 safe and supported they will open up to
01:07:33.720 you and most issues can be solved
01:07:36.839 through a conversation at that point and
01:07:39.520 and that is the environment that we set
01:07:42.279 for our children you know again our
01:07:44.599 oldest came out to us as as gay pretty
01:07:47.559 early she was eighth grade nth grade you
01:07:50.599 know I mean it was a funny it was not
01:07:52.720 funny like haha that was a funny thing
01:07:54.440 that happened it was funny because I
01:07:56.319 know I had noticed them being her and
01:07:58.119 her they're still together her and her
01:07:59.640 girlfriend at the time were um very
01:08:02.200 close they did a lot of things it was a
01:08:03.640 little more than just friendship and I
01:08:05.000 could definitely tell you could
01:08:06.599 definitely tell and at one point I know
01:08:08.559 we were just joking and talking and I
01:08:10.400 said well when are you going to finally
01:08:11.640 just tell me that you guys are dating
01:08:13.599 and it was just one of those moments
01:08:15.039 where you know we all had a good laugh
01:08:16.880 about it because we just had that kind
01:08:18.600 of relationship and so even though it
01:08:21.198 was something that was probably
01:08:22.920 difficult to Bro on and maybe she wasn't
01:08:24.679 entirely comfortable saying it out right
01:08:26.920 yet just having that relationship and
01:08:29.880 seeing that opportunity it turned into a
01:08:32.238 good conversation and it turned into a
01:08:34.479 good opportunity for us to be able to
01:08:36.399 have that discussion so yeah and flip
01:08:38.080 side her her fiance's family that I mean
01:08:41.000 they dated for nine years before she
01:08:43.719 even said anything and her parents were
01:08:45.399 willfully ignorant I mean you go to the
01:08:47.560 prom with this person you had a
01:08:49.158 homecoming with this person you never
01:08:51.120 dating any other boys or anything like
01:08:53.560 that you know obviously if you have a
01:08:56.198 set of eyes and an open mind you're
01:08:58.080 going to understand what's going on they
01:08:59.920 didn't and they tried to pass it off as
01:09:02.080 a phase and it's like well it's been a
01:09:03.719 10year phase so this is a pretty [ __ ]
01:09:06.279 long phase you know and they're still
01:09:08.640 having a hard time accepting it and it's
01:09:10.399 been years since they they were they
01:09:13.198 were told so you know it was a it was
01:09:16.080 interesting because her partner could
01:09:17.560 see the contrast between a house that
01:09:20.600 was safe parents that were supportive
01:09:23.000 she even looks at us as as parents you
01:09:25.920 know be because we've been around for so
01:09:28.040 long she's had a safe space here um you
01:09:31.279 know and then she goes to her house and
01:09:33.479 it's not supportive well it's not to say
01:09:36.040 that they don't love her they do
01:09:37.198 obviously very much love her yes um and
01:09:39.600 and they are a family that cares about
01:09:41.600 their children is just a very different
01:09:43.799 it's one of those set on expectations
01:09:45.880 kind of things it's it's conditional
01:09:48.319 it's conditional to a degree and there
01:09:49.719 is some of that vicarious living and
01:09:52.640 again that's something parents have
01:09:54.600 learned to check at the door I've had to
01:09:56.600 check it at the door I don't think any
01:09:58.400 parent out there hasn't had to look at
01:10:00.159 their own experience that they then
01:10:01.840 tried to well I want to write this wrong
01:10:03.920 or I want to change this thing or I want
01:10:05.320 to have this opportunity it's not about
01:10:07.280 you anymore yeah so I know we've gone
01:10:09.840 way over our normal hour um just because
01:10:13.040 well I really love my children and I
01:10:15.000 love being a parent so I can actually
01:10:16.760 talk about being a parent for you know a
01:10:19.679 long long time um but we did want to put
01:10:24.840 something out there on at least the
01:10:26.960 basics of you know sort of dispel some
01:10:29.760 of these myths when it comes to satanic
01:10:32.800 parenting and you know just the [ __ ]
01:10:35.960 that you hear out there and maybe also
01:10:37.800 help people that are young like when we
01:10:40.840 first had children and are unsure or
01:10:43.120 scared or and you know what are we going
01:10:45.320 to do now how is society going to treat
01:10:47.600 us and at the end of the day I think
01:10:49.760 what we figured out was you are who you
01:10:52.280 are if you pretend to to be somebody
01:10:54.320 you're not it doesn't really work out
01:10:56.719 very well MH and people want will either
01:11:00.280 accept you or they won't yeah Society is
01:11:02.480 going to be what it is and it's going to
01:11:03.840 judge people that are different
01:11:05.080 regardless of what an awesome person you
01:11:07.360 might be CU too many people just don't
01:11:09.640 look past the surface and you can't
01:11:12.199 change that but what you can do is honor
01:11:14.239 yourself you could be a good example to
01:11:15.760 your kids by showing self-love
01:11:17.640 self-respect and teaching them that it's
01:11:19.920 okay to be yourself y yep so with that
01:11:24.560 um we won't bore you anymore with
01:11:27.280 stories about our children um but again
01:11:30.719 I thought it was a really important
01:11:32.400 episode because I do think there is a
01:11:34.440 huge lack of material when it comes to
01:11:37.280 satanic parenting um you know and
01:11:39.880 everybody's got a different style so
01:11:41.480 what we say isn't written and stone
01:11:43.560 maybe it doesn't work for you or what
01:11:45.000 not you got to find your own way but you
01:11:47.320 know no just know there are there are
01:11:49.560 some definite dos and don'ts that are
01:11:52.360 best practices I guess I would say I
01:11:54.800 guess to folks listening out there if
01:11:56.280 you've got insight into your parenting
01:11:58.719 Journey or your experiences that you
01:12:00.520 want to share with us uh after listening
01:12:02.320 to this episode please feel free to do
01:12:03.880 that I'd love to hear your personal
01:12:06.040 stories as a parent as a Satanist what
01:12:09.000 that's been like for you yep absolutely
01:12:11.639 so with that I'll say good day good
01:12:13.960 night good morning wherever the hell
01:12:15.360 you're at and hail Satan hail
01:12:22.480 Satan
01:12:25.640 [Music]